Louise Dyble left her job as a history professor in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan to go to law school at the University of California, Berkeley, at age 40. Louise was a single mother of a 12-year-old daughter, and she lost both her parents within the first year of school. Join us as we talk about how she navigated that transition, plus a little short from me about letting go of your grip and surrendering to the mystery of life. Louise was kind enough to offer her help, so if you're making a similar transition and would like help or advice you may reach out to Louise at louise.dyble@gmail.com. If you need help creating your own podcast, have questions, or think you might know someone I should interview please email molly@jellyfishindustries.com.
Louise Dyble left her job as a history professor in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan to go to law school at the University of California, Berkeley, at age 40. Louise was a single mother of a 12-year-old daughter, and she lost both her parents within the first year of school. Join us as we talk about how she navigated that transition, plus a little short from me about letting go of your grip and surrendering to the mystery of life.
If you're making a similar transition and would like help or advice you may reach out to Louise at louise.dyble@gmail.com.
If you're enjoying these episodes, please leave a review and send it to a friend who might also like the show!
If you need help creating your own podcast, have questions, or think you might know someone I should interview please email molly@jellyfishindustries.com.
Full transcription available at www.iamthisage.com
00:32.11
Louise Dyble
My name is Louise Dyble and I am an attorney I live in Richmond California.
00:51.45
Louise Dyble
I am forty-nine years old and I have a daughter she is ah just graduated from college., and I am in my seventh year as an attorney. So. I went through a big career change and I think that's what we're going to talk about today right? Okay, thank you Thank you.
01:09.73
jellyfishind
Yes, absolutely welcome to the pod Louise. It's so nice to see you so meanwhile we were just talking about like not banging on the table and you changed out your squeaky chair and they're doing construction across the street and I just heard a huge I just heard a huge. Like Bang. So if we hear noises in the background. That's what it is out of my control right? right? Exactly the important part, all right?
01:32.93
Louise Dyble
Ok, that's fine least we have any chair squeaks. You know that's.
01:45.32
jellyfishind
But have I want to just talk a little bit about your history., so you went to undergrad at University Of California Berkeley you majored in history you your PhD you've completed 2 postdocs you then became a lot of stuff.
01:46.90
Louise Dyble
.
01:58.82
Louise Dyble
Yeah, thank you, Thank you.
02:04.39
jellyfishind
Congratulations on all of that. So you then became a professor in, Northern Michigan in the upper Peninsula and you taught Urban history right.
02:10.97
Louise Dyble
Who.
02:16.72
Louise Dyble
Yeah I and that kind that is a big subject for me. It goes back to the very beginning of my education. But I my specialization was Urban history and political economy and . I mean I was I've always just been really fascinated by cities and Urban development and how the but physical environment the built environment if you will shapes people's lives and how our society and laws to shape the built environment. So That's kind of. That's been a big interest for me for a long time. Yeah.
02:55.90
jellyfishind
It's so interesting., so you here you are in the upper peninsula in Michigan teaching about urban history in a pretty rural place. .
03:10.76
Louise Dyble
Definitely.
03:11.68
jellyfishind
He you mentioned to me earlier that you weren't making a lot of money that at your peak you were making about 80 grand but you were spending about 30000 of your own money on research which I feel like we could talk for an hour about just that., but.
03:27.97
Louise Dyble
Yeah.
03:30.60
jellyfishind
Have a lot to cover. But I do I just did just want to like mention that because that is fucked up that is really fucked I just wanted to like say that what the fuck anyway.
03:37.36
Louise Dyble
Ah, yeah, well let's just yeah well I mean that that brings up a big topic that I was actually hoping to talk about is how our education system right now. You know I went into academia as a career and, ah history was a passion for me and I believe I believe strongly in the importance of history and humanities and arts. You know as part of a well vital part of a well-rounded education. And as a foundation of our society and my experience wasn't with that was not I was lucky I was very lucky to have a tenure track position with ah a solid salary and, certain amount of security. But. It still felt very tenuous and I think that that's really a reflection of our societies right? now is not investing appropriately in education and you know I was just experiencing one little piece of that I was assistant professor in the humanities, and ah like I said I was lucky to have that position., including the salary There's so many more people who had devoted who have devoted their ah careers and made investments in academic careers that ah. End up in much worse situations without the security without the steady salary as adjuncts as you know,, ah, piecing together work and I that was a big consider my financial future and my security and you know you. I was ah a mom with a daughter in junior high at that point and, it just didn't feel like it makes sense to stay in that position with that kind of the kind of financial situation where I'm using my own money to invest in research. That I needed to do to advance in my career and, one of the things that I think is ah, an unfortunate trend or a trend. That's maybe gone too far or you know and maybe not. But. Ah there's been an emphasis on Stem Fields Science technology engineering and math. Ah for the last twenty thirty years something like that and that's very important you know and a lot of the emphasis has been on making sure that.
06:11.26
jellyfishind
Oh.
06:21.81
Louise Dyble
Ah, everyone has access to that kind of information Education. You know minorities women people from disadvantaged backgrounds should have the opportunities to go into stem fields but that should not come at the expense of the humanities and the arts and history. And ethnic studies and all the other things that go along with a broad education and you know I hate to get on a little bit of a soapbox I'm obviously on a little bit of a soapbox here. But you know I when I made that career Change. It was for a lot of different reasons and, you know I went into law.
06:51.53
jellyfishind
Please.
07:00.70
Louise Dyble
And it was for you know it was a lot of it was that I was very interested in the law and in you know there was push and pull Factors. You could say but definitely one of the push factor was you know, not seeing a very promising future in in Academia. You know, comparatively and not seeing that kind of financial and economic security that I kind of hope to set up for myself., so I'd love and I think teachers need to be paid more across the board I don't think many people argue with me on that you know from.
07:31.90
jellyfishind
Ah, grade Yeah, some people will but not mere.
07:36.45
Louise Dyble
The preschool you know from Preschool I mean maybe especially preschool on up., because that's what keeps us you know that's what builds a great side. That's the foundation of our democracy.. That's you know that's everything and you know, . It's been, you know there's tremendous amount of structural inequality built into our education system. Ah you know it's an overwhelming problem but something we have to look at very seriously I think again here I am on my soapbox. . But I Really you know I feel like I lived the reality and there's a lot of people who are talented and ambitious and have a lot to offer creative interested engaged who aren't being supported. . You know and end up going in other directions besides teaching. So, yeah.
08:34.15
jellyfishind
Yeah, yeah I am fine with you getting on your soapbox about this for a little while because I completely agree with you and I mean I brought it up for a reason even though it's not really the topic of this podcast but it's so important and I agree I never.
08:41.76
Louise Dyble
Ah, he. Yeah, yeah.
08:53.62
jellyfishind
Understand people who argue this like I don't even have kids and like you can teachers can have all of my money. All of it just all of it I'll give it all to them because it's so important and yeah I don't know why people fight it? .
09:01.57
Louise Dyble
Ah, yeah.
09:07.24
Louise Dyble
Well at Academia that I mean there's also other things that are there's definite. Ah, definitely kind of a roof a resurgence of this's kind of an anti-intellectual. . Ah, ah, moment that we're going through right now and you know that's something that comes up in American history at various different times as kind of Anti-el Elitism and it's and it manifests in different ways and right now. you know there's this tremendous controversy surrounding. Ah, what is taught especially surrounding history and, you know American history ah with respect to Race relations., it's ah this is ah an important moment in it for our society and I Hope we can pull through this and . Come out with a stronger sense of ah, a stronger commitment as a whole to ah history and humanities, you know this represents a turning point but it's a rough period in our history., and I have a daughter. She just graduated from college and she's.
10:10.26
jellyfishind
Yeah.
10:21.45
Louise Dyble
I just see her generation and young people these days as so passionate and so engaged., so motivated I'm really hopeful that we're going to see some positive change. Yeah.
10:28.90
jellyfishind
Okay, good that was that was just going to be my question. Do you see any hope. But, yeah, that's good I see a lot of hope in the young generation too I think they're going to save us I Hope they're going to save us I'm sorry that they have to save us. But.
10:40.11
Louise Dyble
, oh yeah, my daughter will make it very clear. She is not happy being the position of having to save us. She doesn't but .
10:49.76
jellyfishind
No, it's unfair. It's really unfair.
10:57.32
Louise Dyble
But yeah I do think there's just tremendous engagement and, this could you? Yeah well I mean I know we're not here to talk about Macro Trends and politics., but of course it is something that you know as someone who was a history teacher and had committed to that.
11:04.91
jellyfishind
, it's okay.
11:12.91
jellyfishind
E.
11:17.30
Louise Dyble
Direct to my career. It's you know it has never ah diminished and it's importance to me as I understand you know to my values but I chose I chose to take a different path and to make a break and to invest in a new career. . You know that was a big change and the fact that we're talking about this and ah, you know how important I think history and humanities are to our education kind of gets at the core of why changing careers like that. How and why it can be so difficult you know I think that. For me. There was definitely some loss and grief around the decision to leave Academia you know, even if there was a lot of things about it that weren't working out very well for me and like I said there was pull factors I was excited about the law and learning the lot was like very much kind of an extension of the. Work and education I had already, sort of sought for myself. You know I was just moving onto a new stage in some ways in my mind and I think that was true in retrospect too. You know I'm just building upon I've been building upon my his education with law but you know. Whenever you make a big change in your life you know, especially when you get to the middle Ages. You know the middle age period of your life you know and I was I was forty when I decided to go to law school and quit my job as a professor., you're closing indoors. You know.
12:48.70
jellyfishind
Yeah, yeah.
12:49.89
Louise Dyble
You're choosing a path and you there's now you know there's you're narrowing your options and that's true if you don't do anything too and that's kind of one of the things I want to talk about is you know, ah not doing anything or being. Overly cautious or seeing an opportunity and waiting can also kind of result in in, narrow pass going forward, but, but it's always going to be. You know there's always going to be pluses and minuses and.
13:13.10
jellyfishind
Yeah.
13:22.34
Louise Dyble
, the balance that you have to strike in your life and in your decisions making big changes.
13:26.46
jellyfishind
, yeah, it's really hard I mean I want to get to all of that and especially the, the part about how just how hard changes and the doors closing and I always say like the morning of who you were in the past.
13:44.26
Louise Dyble
Ah.
13:44.77
jellyfishind
, but before we get there. I Want to talk a little bit about like when you were deciding to go to law school., first of all I'm so curious because you have obviously a lot of, educational background. You have, a bunch of impressive degrees., does school feel like a little bit of like a safe haven for you. Do you think.
14:09.70
Louise Dyble
Oh yes, I mean yeah, I'm not going to absolutely you know I ah obviously see I grew up in Northeastern Washington state in ah in a very rural place. It's kind of ironic. You know when I ended up back in Northern Michigan was a familiar place to me so I grew up in this rural place and I ah got a basketball scholarship to go to Berkeley and that was, huge ah sort of moment opportunity I mean I can't oversee how it's excited and.
14:36.14
jellyfishind
, oh wow.
14:46.21
Louise Dyble
Exotic. It seemed to me to be going to the big city like that and I ah but I it I in some ways it kind of shaped my ah my long term trajectory because going from that small town to. Berkeley California to this huge university with forty thousand undergraduates and so I remember flying into the Oakland airport and seeing the city laid out beneath me including the bridges you know which tend to end up being my sort of research topic in graduate schools bridges. .
15:21.40
jellyfishind
Ah, bridges there.
15:23.60
Louise Dyble
Just really kind of shaped. my worldview and ah set me on a trajectory of curiosity and I wanted to understand you know I wanted to know how I got there Why that were there Why these crazy bridges were there. You know these huge bridges. Crossing this Bay bringing all this traffic is this tiny little Peninsula was such a such a mystery and you know I framed it over time and in my mind but, I've always been fascinated by but that you know that fascination that excitement really lasted for me. Yeah.
15:57.48
jellyfishind
, yeah, what kind of advice were you getting about this decision to go to law school.
16:05.90
Louise Dyble
Well, so I Oh you asked me but I remember what you were asking about with the education being ah, kind of a safe haven for me. So .
16:20.65
jellyfishind
Yeah, no problem. No problem.
16:21.60
Louise Dyble
And I wanted follow up on that sorry I kind of lost the thread there. But, so yeah I Loved Berkeley I Loved the learning it was. It was wonderful and I stayed there. You know I don't know if you mentioned this but I finished my undergraduate degree and then I just went straight into grad school and into the Ph D program and. Always felt like I didn't know enough you know like I needed more education. Ok I'm starting to learn I'm starting to figure out what's happening I'm starting to build up some knowledge but not even close you know So I kind of still feel that way you know and ah.
16:54.68
jellyfishind
I relate so hard to that I can't even begin to tell you I have to catch myself and like tell myself all right? You know enough for now start applying what you know to.
17:08.96
Louise Dyble
Ah, yeah, yeah.
17:10.70
jellyfishind
Your life to your career and it just and it never feels like enough I was in the wine I was in the wine industry for 13 years and I still feel new to the industry even though I know I know a lot but it's not enough anyway, please go on.
17:19.70
Louise Dyble
Ah, yeah, well I think one of the things I learned so I there I was undergraduate graduate school straight into academia teaching then I decide as a career move to go back to school you know I never left. So I mean I spent the first from the age of 17 when I arrived in Berkeley to the age of 43 when I graduated from 42 when I graduated from law school I never really stepped outside of the educational system and you know like you said how this kind of. Never felt like a quite new enough but that but now I realize I finally stepped out I got a regular job the learning doesn't stop. You know that's one thing I love about I you can I don't have to be in school in that protected environment.
18:06.61
jellyfishind
Yes.
18:14.74
Louise Dyble
Ah, to keep on learning. So thank goodness for that. You know it was really a revelation that it was scary for me to step out of that comfortable sphere of academia where I had been successful and I had felt protected and supported. .
18:14.99
jellyfishind
Yeah I Love that.
18:31.92
Louise Dyble
But then to realize I can still have the things that I was so passionate and I could still learn new things I could still research and explore and search out information. You know? Yeah, but then okay so I hope that answers your education question. But then you yeah.
18:40.25
jellyfishind
Yeah. That does. Thank you.
18:48.50
Louise Dyble
Then you asked about what people were telling me when I decided to go to law school and that's an interesting topic too because oh I got so much advice you know and I think, well for one thing I thought about going to law school when I was an undergraduate and I was. Wrongly discouraged. by the most of the people I talk Well all the people that I talked to which happened to mostly be my history professors. You know, thinking about going to law school and they well.
19:15.38
jellyfishind
Why.
19:21.17
Louise Dyble
I Mean this is funny thing I don't know if you heard of it but not everyone loves lawyers have you not.
19:25.98
jellyfishind
Yeah, what do you mean? I've never heard of this idea before lawyers are so lovely. 1 of my close friends is a lawyer and I love her and she's love this. But.
19:31.64
Louise Dyble
Ah, yeah, well I just got a lot I think that? Yeah, no, we're a diverse bunch that I'll say that. so the yeah I just got this message of look it. Well I think that the assumption was that I.
19:40.46
jellyfishind
Ah, yeah, with.
19:51.45
Louise Dyble
I wanted to do that for 100 % pragmatic reasons you know like I wanted which is ah I think a valid way to make decision. Sometimes you want practical you know security a practical career something you can you know build a solid foundation on., and I think some of my professors were thinking like no, you don't need to do that you know you don't need to be that practical like but take some risks you know, but I don't think that was really what I what's I was thinking about at the time I don't know I'd have to go back in time to really know, but that's what I was thinking like. This it was just kind of like, you have so much passion for learning why go in this pragmatic direction and so I said five you know ok great I'm going to go in the direction of my PhD in history and write a book and you know do this creative stuff and then. But you know I returned to it later I was in this ah I was in Northern Michigan teaching urban history and ah the most rural campus you can imagine you know, and it I tended actually I focused a lot on environmental history at the time and. Like I did a clock course I really liked on deindustrialization talked a lot about the history of Michigan and the Midwest it was. It was a it was a good place to teach but you know at some point I just felt like I needed to so. I needed more that old urge to learn and grow came back and I wanted to be more engaged with contemporary issues and you know, kind of current problems and I was finding that my being in Northern Michigan in a history professor position was not. Giving me the chances that I wanted to engage with kind of what was happening now in the world., and because I'd all like I mentioned before I study political economy. you know and including law and policy and that. Very a lot of focus on the structure of government so law for me just seemed like a natural direction for my continued pursuit of understanding and knowledge and people gave me the same kind of. Advice I had gotten when I was an undergraduate thinking about this is like why would you want to do that you know I got a lot of lawyers telling me that lawyers are miserable and that you know it's a fair It's a difficult career and there you know they were.
22:21.88
jellyfishind
Women.
22:33.43
Louise Dyble
Wrong. There's step but the thing is with law.. There is so many different ways to practice it. There's so many different experiences and pathways and opportunities and I think in the end that was how I looked that I came to look at it that I wasn't. I wasn't quote unquote becoming a lawyer I was getting a law degree I was learning about law and I was putting a new tool in my toolbox and I'll tell you right now and I think this is important point that I want to make is that I did not expect to go in the direction that I.
22:58.74
jellyfishind
Yeah.
23:12.38
Louise Dyble
Ah, ended up going in with my legal career and I am very happy with how things have gone and I'm I You know my job right now is wonderful challenging I'm constantly learning and I'm just ah, very happy with how things turned out but it was. Definitely not how I plan things you know and I think that if folks are thinking about a new career direction that is just something I Really want to say, you don't we don't know what's going to happen in the future and. Whether we stay where we are or whether we try something New. You don't know and you can't There's a real limit to them mount that we can steer our career Trajectories. So I think that you know the decision I made to quit my tenure track job and go to law school. It was a. Huge risk It was a huge investment and it didn't It didn't not go I How I wanted it to go but that was ok. You know and it could be that I mean I think that that where I ended up in the job that I have now is. A wonderful outcome for me, you know, but I had to let go I had to be flexible I had to go easy on myself. You know, and I think that's just that's so important in life and it's been so important to me In. . Kind of ah you know going through I'll fight frankly some rocky times in this transition at just being open and ah trying to maintain that resiliency to keep going and not being always constantly in control or steering the ship.
25:05.50
jellyfishind
Yeah, that's hard, but that idea of just being open to life I think, what did your daughter think when you were deciding to become a lawyer.
25:06.28
Louise Dyble
So to speak? Yeah. .
25:19.24
Louise Dyble
Oh yeah, well she was let's see I think she was about I think she's 12 No she was 30 she was 12 when I did went to law school and, yeah.
25:33.50
jellyfishind
Right? really quickly. What is what is your daughter's name Laura okay sorry, please go on.
25:38.10
Louise Dyble
Oh her name is Laura yeah, yeah, she I mean, she's always been incredibly supportive. Ah we have a I feel like we have a wonderful kind of mutually supportive relationship and. You know, being a single parent is, there's a lot of challenges that goes with go with that., and you have to be careful not to put too much burden on the kids because you know often single parents are facing, special challenges and you know like you opened up with this financial element of it and. You know that is ah keeping together a household and paying the bills. You know that's something you can ignore and put aside you know that's a constant so she's always been flexible supportive and I try you know. I hope that I'm the one that is ultimately supporting her but we have very mutualistic relationships so when she was 12 or 13 I just I talked her about this decision and going back to law school and she was on board. it. It helped that we were going to back to California you know I went to. Berkeley as an undergraduate and got my PhD at Berkeley and then went to law school at Berkeley and it's a lot of Berkeley on my rese. But, yeah Berkeley is great and they have a wonderful environmental law program and.
27:02.34
jellyfishind
Berkeley is great I lived there.
27:10.17
Louise Dyble
But I think the clincher was for me was I knew exactly where we were going to live. They had student housing in a great public school district., where I knew I would move in and my daughter could literally just walk to school in the morning and she'd be . In a you know relatively small school where ah she could you kind of, well where she did really well and she had a lot of resources., and. This goes back to what we're talking about earlier about education system in this country as ah as a single parent I have always made the decision on where to live based on the school district because unfortunately school districts are very varied and uneven you know. I wish it wasn't that case but my decision to go law school was as much as anything so that my daughter we could live in student housing and my daughter could go to the junior high in high school which that she went to and I you know law school is very challenging I proceeded to. You know study and you know hit it hard to do the best that I could and she I wish I could have given her more attention than I did but she turned out pretty good I don't know she'll probably listen to this and have lots to say., but you know we made it through together we were we were partners and I just really appreciate., you know that that kind of support and I think this brings it back to this I another thing I wanted to talk about is windows of opportunity. For big changes in your life., frankly if the fact that my daughter was twelve thirteen and could walk to school on her own and had a little bit of independence was an important consideration for me., and I think when you know if so. Your listeners out. There are thinking about making a big life change. You know that might not be something they consider but there's so many factors that that play in to ah as you get older. There's just your life is complicated and there's a lot of things to consider. Not just career but personal. You know your parents your kids other kinds of obligations financial considerations like you know, do you need to save up a little this and that and I think it can be difficult to know when the time is right .
29:52.29
Louise Dyble
When enough of those factors come together so that you have a good solid foundation to, make a change versus when you need to wait a little longer or you know when the balance isn't is isn't quite right. It's ah it's a tough call but . You know you got to keep an eye out for those windows when those things pull together because they open and they close and sometimes you just got to jump off the diving board into the deep end and you know take that risk hope that it all. It is. It's enough and . It could be really scary. Ah, and I want to recognize that So I don't want to give people I feel like my big career change turned out great. I'm so glad when the best thing never ever did. But I want acknowledge that is this tough decision and the timing element is big. And family can be a huge consideration Too. You know my parents, were another thing that came up I didn't know this was going to happen but both my parents passed away while I was in law school., so you know it was ah you know here I was Junior high daughter. Doing my best to support her and spend time with her but also trying to get decent grades and in a competitive law school and then I have to, you know and then my parents come up as a something I have to attend to and pay attention to and you know.
31:20.39
jellyfishind
, and your mom was living with you at the time right? when she got sick.
31:25.13
Louise Dyble
Yeah, yeah, yeah,, my dad passed away and went up to the funeral in my first year my second year my mom got sick and ah she was visiting me. She came down to Berkeley, and. Ah, she ah, she couldn't leave because she and ah this is I'm having a hard time now. But, she had diabetes and she ah almost lost her foot.
31:58.95
jellyfishind
Oh my god.
32:01.92
Louise Dyble
Yeah, it's such a such a terrible disease. It can be so, horrible in the end stages so she was living with me and, you know, healing from a surgery to save her., and ultimately, she passed away just ah about a year after. That surgery to Save her Foot and ah it was and you know I kind of I kind of met diabetes is one of these diseases that is, you know it's connected with socio economic status and that you know it's kind of got a lot of ah, can you know.
32:22.70
jellyfishind
Sorry.
32:40.18
Louise Dyble
Baggage associated with it or associations that are it's charged with meaning maybe but I wanted to specifically name it because I Also because it's something that affects ah does affect a lot of people who, come from a lower socioeconomic. Background or you know a poverty background. I did not come from a background of poverty I came from a middle class home., but I just but I want to say that you know there's . Ah, there is a lot that goes along with ah your family and your background and I wanted to acknowledge that you know when I'm talking about my experience of changing careers that I had resources and privilege. You know as a white woman. That I benefited from and but I want to say you know that doesn't I don't think it changes the idea that we can all take advantage when those windows open and the opportunity comes up and we have a passion or we have a goal. We can. We can take those risks we can make those investments., and I'm hoping that., ah you know one of what I guess one and the message I want to put out. There is ah to encourage folks to make those investments. Acknowledging that They're not necessarily easy and they you know things come up that can be unexpected so with me with my parents ah passing away during law school. My daughter actually had to have ah knee surgery twice when I was in law school.
34:28.31
jellyfishind
I.
34:31.71
Louise Dyble
I'll tell you I didn't do as well in law school as I wanted to you know? yeah and I'm and maybe you know and also even if that stuff hadn't come up. Maybe I wouldn't have done as well as I hope Anyway, you know, but.
34:34.46
jellyfishind
I can't imagine why.
34:45.38
jellyfishind
No.
34:49.59
Louise Dyble
And so it was tempting I guess there were moments that I wanted to really get down to myself and kind of, view myself as maybe a failure for not living up to this kind of the certain kind of expectations I had for myself. No. You know, no I didn't do exactly what I wanted to do I didn't I did fine though and I have had tremendous opportunities you got to be go easy on Yourself. You know if you're if you're in your middle Ages. You know if you're.
35:09.54
jellyfishind
That.
35:26.83
Louise Dyble
You're in your 40 s you're in your late 30 s There's a lot going on in your life. It could be complicated support yourself. You know, give yourself credit where credit is due if you things don't go as well as you wanted them to give yourself a break keep going. Pick up continue with your investment., this is something you know I'm saying out loud things that I've had to tell myself on multiple cases. You know I am fine I am doing Well this is an investment and this is you know. I Need to give myself credit where credit is due and not necessarily. You know not get down on myself for things that I'm disappointed in. So, it's been a big.. It's been a big journey.
36:06.85
jellyfishind
Yeah. Yeah, and that's all so important to address I'm so glad that you are talking about it., it is really hard and I know that this podcast is about like encouraging people to make the change and I agree that one of the things. Obviously we talk about how hard it is and the fears and the insecurities and how you navigate through that. But yeah, it isn't just like about being positive all the time like it's really hard and I'm glad that we're acknowledging that it's hard for different people for different reasons and different people have privileges that others don't and. Is a really important piece to it. I'm curious hold on you've like answered so many of my you're actually like the best. Guest because you've answered I'm literally just like looking through my questions and I'm like she's just going through them and I didn't even ask, but.
37:06.71
Louise Dyble
Well as you can tell I got kind of one I mean there's is a few points I wanted to make about you know, taking risk investing yourself and having that personal resiliency Once you do make the change I'm and that's the message I kind of wanted. So.
37:18.31
jellyfishind
, yeah, oh yeah, and this is what I was going to say too is that I am always telling myself like when I'm feeling like I want to give up or I'm never going to make it or this is.
37:23.40
Louise Dyble
I'm done with my message I think I got it across.
37:35.45
jellyfishind
Stupid. What am I doing you know that I have to have these moments where I sort of step outside of myself and think like no, no, no, this is part of that struggle that everyone talks about and nobody or you know people don't necessarily detail but this is the struggle that you have to go through to get to the thing that you want. Or to the place that you want to be so keep going. You're fine. This is normal.
37:56.81
Louise Dyble
Yeah, and you know the place that you want to be is allowed to change you know and it should we it you if you set yourself a specific goal when you start out Great fine. That's healthy.
38:04.83
jellyfishind
Yes, yes.
38:15.75
Louise Dyble
Go for that goal if you realize you can't reach that goal does not mean you failed it means you need a new goal you know and that you need to you know that you need to adapt. That's what resiliency is about., yeah.
38:26.69
jellyfishind
Yeah, and also figuring out like well what is it about that goal that you that you believed you would feel when reaching that goal because right because like goals aren't like yeah we want the thing we want the job and we want the money and we want the fancy car in the house but like.
38:35.25
Louise Dyble
Yeah.
38:45.33
jellyfishind
Really what we want is how those things are going to make us feel when we get them So what is it that we really want to feel and then figure out how to get that now and then if we don't get to the goal. It's okay, doesn't matter because we won't yield the way.
38:55.50
Louise Dyble
Yeah that's a great point that that you got it your when you're make when I did well when I went to law school it was a I knew it'd be at least 3 years law school I didn't know there'd also be many years of just trying to learn how to be a lawyer. You know there was this huge period of transition in where I was very challenged all the time. But, you know we started out talking about education and school and learning I had to. Ah, the way to think about that that those time what you're the process is that that is it itself 1 of the outcomes and being uncomfortable being challenged, having to manage multiple. Factors in your life including things like family as well as career stuff. That's all part of the benefit and the learning process and the I mean hopefully you can think of that as part of the goal. You know I'm making a huge career change. It's not about like. Starting at a and getting to b and everything in between is it doesn't count. It's got to be that whole that whole process as being integrated into your goal and integrated into your thinking about ah what you're getting from the change.
40:13.70
jellyfishind
Yeah.
40:28.94
Louise Dyble
And the investment in yourself. Yeah, ah okay, go ahead. Sorry yeah oh I was going to I was going to also just to go back to the money element of things.
40:29.30
jellyfishind
, yeah, a hundred percent so know. I was I was you can what were you going to say I was going to ask a different question. So yeah.
40:46.92
Louise Dyble
, debt I wanted to say something about debt. Yeah, I know that.
40:50.56
jellyfishind
Please Yes I think it's really important to talk about finances when also talking about change. So please. Yeah.
41:02.69
Louise Dyble
The prospect of going into debt deters. A lot of people from taking chances and I'm not just talking about educational changes. You know if you want to start a business or, kind of ah, any kind of big enterprise or personal change. You need to make a move. What have you it costs money. You know and a lot of us don't have money. Ah I Just want to put out there I went into debt to go to law school and ah that the way I look at that is that I was that's part of my privilege I was Privileged. It was a resource that I had access to.
41:25.27
jellyfishind
Yeah.
41:41.96
Louise Dyble
To be able to take on that debt and sure it's a burden over the long term. But I could never have done what I did if I didn't have access to the student loans and I'm you know I'm paying him off to this day but you know what I that 100% part of my investment of time. And money was and part of my opportunity was taken on that debt and I think we need to think rationally about debt and this long term consequences and how to manage it? Ah, but it shouldn't be a necessarily a negative. It can be a positive too And ah. So I Just want to throw that out there I know that a lot of people who are more sophisticated about business maybe come from entrepreneurial families for example and have exposure to that way of thinking know what I said is true., but someone who you know I can I didn't have that kind of background and I.
42:34.36
jellyfishind
, yeah.
42:38.41
Louise Dyble
Definitely here from a lot of people I grew up with or you know I can't afford college I can't afford the education and unfortunately you know it shouldn't be as expensive as it is. That's another thing. Yeah I think we should have access to higher education for everyone. But. Ah, under those circumstances if you get to take on some debt. That's part of your investment. So I Just want to put that that out there too something that that can have be a factor. No I Just went full time.
43:05.42
jellyfishind
Yeah, thank you for that were you were you working at all while you were in law school.
43:16.29
jellyfishind
Okay, okay,, yeah,, but it worked great.
43:17.10
Louise Dyble
, Boom you know it was expensive. I Mean so far so good I Absolutely yeah, I'm in much better position than I than I was before I Absolutely do not regret a penny of that you know? yeah.
43:32.99
jellyfishind
Good and. Good,, and you were 40 when you started law school What was like the average age of people in your class.
43:46.19
Louise Dyble
Oh I don't know what the average is I think Berkeley's a little bit ah tends a little bit older than a lot of other law schools., ah think ah, but ah I was definitely the oldest in my class by probably six or seven years
43:53.96
jellyfishind
Okay.
44:02.84
jellyfishind
A wow.
44:05.69
Louise Dyble
Ah, there was a those person who I worked with who was in the class above me who was just slightly older than me so that was really helpful I you know was not an totally anomalous. But I mean there I was part of this group called older and why wiser law students owls. And we'd have lunch together and stuff and it was a great group but I was definitely the kind of senior member of that group set Well ah you know what it was ok. It was good preparation for my career as a lawyer because .
44:24.94
jellyfishind
Oh.
44:30.87
jellyfishind
, what did that feel like.
44:42.79
Louise Dyble
I made friends with I mean I mean ah I remember some of the people I like enjoyed talking to the most in my law school class were you know in their early 20 s and closer in H to my daughter than me so I had a few conversations about you know what kind of what I should get her how I should take her and you know. Get her the right kind of clothes for the fashion of the moment Stuff. You know, just, where the other law students would advocate for my daughter that was fun., but it just I don't I have to remember I was University Professor for a reason. I like.
45:02.19
jellyfishind
Yeah, yeah.
45:08.70
jellyfishind
Yeah.
45:20.55
Louise Dyble
Ah, young people I learn a lot from them I Really enjoy talking to them and being I think I just enjoyed that aspect of ah being part of this multi. Ah, this community that has many different ages and perspectives. . And then going into law you know I went in a fairly traditional direction and got a job at a big firm and I was colleagues and I still have colleagues people who are much younger than me and I still feel the same way like I really value their perspective and the friendship and I. I'm glad to maintain those kind of connections in some ways I think part of the reason I Ah I teaching was, ah always it could be very difficult. You know teaching is a lot well is a lot harder than it looks. But. I Always and I think part of the things that was so throw me off is I'd when I'd have smaller classes I Just want to sit down and talk to my friends in a very non hierarch Way. You know my young friends. Let's talk about this book., that didn't necessarily work all the time but sometime it work really well you know so got to kind of motivate and, engage. Ah, both. But I think that that's that served me well in this context and you know.
46:31.94
jellyfishind
And.
46:47.15
Louise Dyble
Ah, it’d be part if people are thinking about changing careers that could definitely be part of the process and it connects with this. this dynamic where you got to be humble. You got to be open. You got to ah relax your perceptions and., really open to learning from everyone in all different directions. It's really helpful. Yeah, stay curious. Yeah.
47:11.50
jellyfishind
Yeah, yeah, stay curious. Yeah, okay I kind of want to talk a little bit about like I know we've talked we've covered this a little bit but I want to talk about Change. And how there's a lot of sadness and like mourning that comes from it. You were, you were obviously working towards this new career and this new future to better take care of yourself and your daughter and you know ah like it made this whole thing has made me think.
47:34.53
Louise Dyble
.
47:51.13
jellyfishind
About how when we change and when we grow there is so much like it's a lot of letting like what you said before like we already covered a little bit of closing doors letting go of the past and letting go of like who we were in the past and. I Think that that can be really hard and there can be a lot of sadness and a lot of mourning I Don't think we talk about it enough and it's really scary but also at this time you were actually mourning. You know your. Parents the loss of your parents as well and everything that that means and I know we covered it a little bit but I just wanted I just feel like we don't talk about this enough in general and you just had it I can't even I'm like overwhelmed just saying those things. . Can't imagine how really we're feeling I want to know sort of how it affected you and I want to know how it also changed like how it affected your focus in school how it affected taking care of your daughter but also like. How did it affect like who you are how you parent how you work.
49:07.32
Louise Dyble
Yeah, oh that those are those are really good questions., and you know I'm thinking back on. It's like wow did that really happen. Yeah, it did it was it was hard., and I think I tried. At first and maybe for a while I really tried to just kind of put it aside the grief and carry on you know, which is what I did I didn't take a break I graduated time. Yay you know? and .
49:45.77
jellyfishind
Congratulations.
49:46.12
Louise Dyble
I Took that job. Yeah, So ah, but I since then you know well since then I have spent a lot of time. Ah. Trying to ah it trying to ah build a healthy trying to But how do I put this I've spent a lot of time in Therapy since yeah, I'll just put it that way.
50:15.72
jellyfishind
Yeah, yeah.
50:20.51
Louise Dyble
And also paying attention to spirituality like I came from a back and we didn't we're not a religious family and I was just kind of agnostic and not very concerned with spiritual matters when I was growing up and I think. Yeah,, since then I've paid spent a lot of time reading about mental health about ah wellness and mindfulness is a big topic that came up and I would I just another shout out for Berkeley Law I don't want to. Necessarily do boost it excessively. But when I was at Berkeley Law they had a mindfulness program., but yeah, which was I think was just wonderful. They ah they had meditation they had .
51:03.70
jellyfishind
Does not surprise me.
51:14.98
Louise Dyble
But my favorite professor. Ah Jonathan Simon would take ah a minute at the beginning of each class and have us all sit and be mindful and he play a chime and to kind of set the tone and to get us present. And I was you know those were wonderful elements of law school and then I subsequently I've really ah taken that and tried to take ah mental health and wellness and spirituality more seriously. You know and build them into my life and that has been out of necessity to some extent because you can't just take a blow like losing your parents and losing a career I mean I'll just say it. You know there was a loss there I might go back. You know. But, that was part of the grief and you can't just put that aside and ignore it and move on. You know you've got to you got to take the time for that to grapple with those things and not everyone has the money or the time for therapy and you know there's but there's a lot of ways. Community. Organizations and people if you I found that when I was willing to stop and pause and ask for help. There was help you know there were people who guided me and invested in me and helped me through the rough times with that. So. You know I don't want to go into too minute too much detail. Ah, but that's another thing I've just been profoundly grateful for ah a learning a lesson that I learned a part of my education that I was not expecting at all, you know. When I went to law school did I think oh this is going to be a very spiritual experience for me and I'm going to learn and grow all kinds of no I was not thinking that but that that's what ended up being and, it's incredibly valuable I think you know but I think oh yeah, go ahead.
53:11.74
jellyfishind
Yeah, that's such a good. Oh I was just going to say that's such a good point and I'm just I'm so curious are like was it is it easy for you to ask for help because I think that it's really hard for a lot of people.
53:26.86
Louise Dyble
No, it's not easy. Ah, it's, but once I started to ask for help. Ah, for example I, ah I joined the universe. Ah. Unitarian church, and I started going to ah, services before I went to law school actually and I met ah a. But the minister there was just so amazing and so generous at time and spirit and such an interesting like thoughtful person. She just had a huge impact on my life and on me and ah I was just amazed at how? . Just I was just amazed at how generous she was with her time and interest and attention and I guess that 1 experience that I had where I was kind of you know I was on the verge of making this big life decision. And I was suddenly embraced by this community and by this wonderful you know, spiritual leader. It was like oh you know I can ask for help. There are people who will help me. It was kind of like once you do it and you have a good experience and you open yourself up.
54:45.40
jellyfishind
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
54:47.60
Louise Dyble
Ah, then it becomes a lot easier. Are you real. It's like a hopeful thing. You know you can You can ask for help you can reach out to people you can make connections., and, you know you realize like this this could maybe it'll be like ah another experience I had with the you years you know like this is. This is not a bad thing to do. It is not just about Vulnerability. It's it. You know it is vulnerable to ask for help. But sometimes you get it. You know it's incredible. Yeah, so.
55:15.98
jellyfishind
Yeah, yeah, sometimes you get it and like anything else will be easier and easier the more you do it and people want to help like people want to be able and it's not weak. It's like incredibly brave and strong to ask for help.
55:23.14
Louise Dyble
Yeah, yeah, so that's right. Yeah, and then it's so, well just last year I volunteered for Berkeley another great thing about Berkeley law. Okay, here goes again, you know they have ah.
55:46.31
jellyfishind
Ah, we love Berkeley law.
55:51.61
Louise Dyble
They have a first generation professionals program for folks who you know who parents weren't professionals. Maybe they were you know working class or immigrants who ah you know hadn't had the opportunity to get a lot of education is a lot of different. Folks in the first generation program and I was in it. You know my parents neither one of them graduating from college., and I volunteered recently to kind of talk to and be there for a new ah law student who, had similar background. And I that was so great I mean there's nothing feels better than hopefully you know hopefully I helped her I gave her my best advice that could come up with how to how to take a law school exam which is believe me not intuitive and.
56:43.46
jellyfishind
Yeah, yeah, that sounds really helpful.
56:47.66
Louise Dyble
Yeah, and, you know that was me on the other side very fortunate to be able to pay it back. Hopefully pay it back a little and so how gratifying that is just Amazing. So You know if you're out there. You're Struggling. You're going through some grief. Maybe you're dealing with family issues. All kinds of things don't ask for help or don't So don't hesitate excuse me I shouldn't say don't ask that I said don't hesitate as for help reach out people will help you it's.
57:19.59
jellyfishind
Yeah.
57:24.56
Louise Dyble
Part of what's great about being han. You know? Yeah, so.
57:27.40
jellyfishind
, yes, yes,, so you're, an environmental lawyer. So and what's your favorite thing about being a lawyer.
57:35.14
Louise Dyble
Oh well, just I'm just going to double down on the theme I learned something new every day and ah environmental law is great for me because ah, it's very it combines.
57:47.84
jellyfishind
And on that.
57:58.73
Louise Dyble
Law and policy and science you know and something. Ah, you know we've talked about I was an Urban Historian has come very interested in places. So a lot of my matters will involve a real place with. Ah, where I get to kind of learn all about ah maybe a site For example I I've done ah diligence and help with ah solar projects and wind projects you know and trying to get them get them going and solve problems that come up with their.
58:28.27
jellyfishind
Cool.
58:35.42
Louise Dyble
They're citing and maybe it's transmission. So I get to learn all about say you know riverside county or, ah you know Texas and rural Texas what's going on there or you know I've done projects in Michigan I've it's just been incredible. You know to, be in this field where I learned and then and the other thing is sometimes I'll deal with cleanup sites I'll get to learn all about ah right now I've learned all about the history of pcbs and how they were. You know, used in the United States and electrical equipment and have this you know have a legacy. We have to clean up now. I it's fascinating and .
59:27.62
jellyfishind
, yeah, you just seem so like excited and happy. It's really fun to see to like watch you talk about it. But.
59:28.70
Louise Dyble
Yeah I feel incredibly lucky to be able to do that when I as part of my job. Yeah.
59:37.44
Louise Dyble
Yeah I do really I really enjoy my work and I'm ah I'm still in the process of establishing new career. You know I'm a ah associate you know I'm I'd at a at a big firm and I don't know what's going to happen. In two or three years you know I'm kind of on this track where you ah you know you still, you're lay the foundation of your career I'm still sort of learning the basics and trying to build up my skills as an attorney and there's no guarantees for me., but. I think by now I have learned that if I'm open and you know get up every day do my work and take care of ah you know, take good care of myself in many ways you know it's a joy. It's the process of learning and building towards a future is a joy and I don't have to be you know I don't have to be ah invested in 1 particular outcome to feel good about where things are going. You know? yeah.
01:00:46.84
jellyfishind
, yeah,, what part of your journey Would you have done differently if you had the chance.
01:00:56.64
Louise Dyble
Oh, that's a good question. I you know I know there's going to be some parents out there could probably relate to this but I. Always wish I had spent more time with my daughter you know? and I think part of being a parent is you know you have to make tough decisions and you got to. We have a career you're balancing. Ah, the parenting and the career inevitably I hope I modeled a strong you know self aware and ah, ah, but ah I hope I modeled ah the kind of person that my daughter. Can be I'm hope for her that she builds a ah, an interesting strong career that she's passionate about and I hope that she ends up with financial independence but you know looking back there were there were years especially in law school where. I Wish I had taken more time with her. So, and that was probably part of my like going in with this expectation I you know have to get top grades and I have to you know I want to be on a certain path I.
01:02:12.42
jellyfishind
Kenna.
01:02:24.22
Louise Dyble
You know originally I wanted to go back into academia and just into a different field. That's not something that worked out. Ah if I had kind of let go of my control and my outcome oriented perspective a little bit earlier I think I could have balanced that out a little bit more. As I said she'll probably listen to this podcast at some point she'll have plenty of opinions about it. But so hi Laura I hope you're okay, yeah.
01:02:44.89
jellyfishind
Ah, as and yeah, hi Laura we can't wait to hear your penman., do you think that if you if you had. Done all that differently that you would be where you are today.
01:03:04.90
Louise Dyble
I don't I mean there's just no telling That's it. That's a tough question. I feel like there's been a lot of moments turning points where my career could have gone in very different directions at some for somebody said to me very early on.
01:03:07.89
jellyfishind
Yeah there.
01:03:23.83
Louise Dyble
That law a law career is very path dependent and I think that's true. Ah, once you set off in a certain direction for me., you build up knowledge and skills in that area that . That are really important to your Success. You can't just you know change directions. It's just like within law you know, changing directions is a significant as making a career change in another, ah in another context and so . I Think there's a lot of points at which I could have gone in different directions my career and end up in very different places., and ah but I'm it's Good. You know I'm it. I Have no complaints at all I am having great time and very optimistic about, ah, continuing forward with this very exciting and rewarding career that could go in a lot of direction from here as Well. You know I think I'm an environmental lawyer I Think that's pretty much that.
01:04:33.50
jellyfishind
Yeah.
01:04:39.22
Louise Dyble
, at this point but there's certainly a lot of things that can happen from here on out and ah you know and may including like right now I would like to make partner at my firm which is a pretty big goal and that's what I kind of.
01:04:40.60
jellyfishind
, need you.
01:04:56.80
Louise Dyble
Hoping and working towards right now who knows maybe that'll happen. You know I hope so check in in a couple years you know yeah ah yeah, so you could see me as like.
01:04:58.43
jellyfishind
, yeah, that'd be awesome I Hope that happens absolutely and you'll come back and tell us about it. .
01:05:12.97
Louise Dyble
Ah, through the transition in your career or you could see me in the middle of the transition in the career. So as just kind of your perspective on things. Yeah, and yeah.
01:05:17.10
jellyfishind
Cool right? right? right? Well like you said we never stop learning. We never stop growing and changing and all the things hopefully, Louise you are a delight to talk to I am so glad that we did this. I feel like I could talk to you for like another 2 hours but I know that you have places to go and things to do so I'm just so thank you so much for doing this. This is like so wonderful.
01:05:43.43
Louise Dyble
Ah, well I Just really Appreciate. Ah the opportunity and I hope you know folks look me up give me a send me a note you know don't be afraid to ask for help I'm happy to talk to anyone who's thinking about the law career. Ah. Direction and ah, it's a pleasure and a privilege to be able to share some of my experiences. Thank you? Oh well, let's see.
01:06:08.37
jellyfishind
, well thank you and where can people find you then if they wanted to reach out.
01:06:16.20
Louise Dyble
The best thing to do would just be send me an email to my personal email which is Louise dot Dyble at http://gmail.com I assume that you have my name up. It's little spelled a little bit different.
01:06:25.54
jellyfishind
I will have I'll put all of this in the show notes and anyone can go there and find her and email. .
01:06:34.87
Louise Dyble
But, and ah I'm very sensitive so you can criticism is ah considered but don't be nice folks. Be nice folks.
01:06:43.48
jellyfishind
I Be mean like I don't I Hopefully no one's going to be mean to be email you and say increase reach out reach out. Yeah reach out to her for with questions and curiosity and kindness., and that's it.
01:06:49.40
Louise Dyble
I Am wary of the internet these days. It's pretty brutal.
01:06:57.21
Louise Dyble
Yeah, let's be kind. Oh now I'm really going to get it. Okay, all right? Okay, thank you.