Christine Kaplan, Molly’s personal life coach, has joined the pod today to share her story about how she mentally prepared to move on from her marriage and all the tools she used to help her through that experience. Join us to hear about Christine’s mindset journey and how much she’s loving life, now. Key takeaways: - Reflecting on our choices and learning from them is crucial for personal growth. - Being clear about our values and boundaries helps us make better decisions. - Sharing knowledge and helping others grow is a powerful way to create positive change. - Don't forget to subscribe to never miss an episode!
Christine Kaplan, Molly’s personal life coach, has joined the pod today to share her story about how she mentally prepared to move on from her marriage and all the tools she used to help her through that experience. Join us to hear about Christine’s mindset journey and how much she’s loving life, now.
Key takeaways:
- Reflecting on our choices and learning from them is crucial for personal growth.
- Being clear about our values and boundaries helps us make better decisions.
- Sharing knowledge and helping others grow is a powerful way to create positive change.
- Don't forget to subscribe to never miss an episode!
Christine’s Links:
https://christinekaplancoaching.com/
Insightful Video:
Molly's Links:
Follow Molly on Instagram:
📍 📍 📍 📍 📍 📍 📍 📍 Are you in a relationship that you aren't enjoying anymore, but you don't want to face the idea of leaving it. Maybe it's a marriage with children and you've been in it for so long. You can't even imagine what your life would look like outside of this relationship.
My guest today shares her story and her 20 plus years of tools as a therapist. And how and why she left her marriage. And while we're not here to convince you that you should leave yours, we are here to make sure that you know, that you don't have to live in an unhappy relationship forever and that there is something better out there. Welcome to I am this age, the podcast proving it's never too late and you're never too old. So go do that thing. You're always talking about I'm Molly cider, your host. I'm also a certified professional life coach, a storyteller speaker, a producer. It has taken a really long time to convince her, but my personal life coach and dear friend, Christine Kaplan has finally agreed to come on my podcast and y'all are so lucky to get a glimpse of this wonderful woman who has helped me through the biggest transitional period of my life. Because, yes, I have a coach. I have two coaches, actually. I'm very lucky. Christine is amazing and she's a wonderful coach. She focuses on ADHD clients from teenagers to adults like me. And I'm just really excited to finally have her here. But before we get into the interview, I have really big news to share.
I just launched a new part of my business. It's called insightful videos. It's more than just your legacy. 📍 We all want to feel understood and connected. And one of the leading causes of premature mortality. Is not feeling that way. I believe that everyone's story deserves to be heard. And it's my mission to ensure that your impact will never be forgotten.
If you know someone, or maybe you are someone who wants to feel more connected and understood. And we'd like the opportunity to reflect on your life's journey in a very supported and safe way. And. In a highly produced video to share with loved ones, click the link in the show notes, to learn more and to get in touch with me. This is pretty similar to what I do when I interview people here on the podcast, but in a personalized and private version, just for you and whomever, you want to pass it on to. Okay now onto the 📍 show.
Hi, my name's Christine Kaplan. I'm 60 years old. I'm an ADHD life coach and I have three adult children. So I am now at my next chapter of life and exploring things that I like to do for fun and grow my business.
I'm so excited to have you here.
Christine was married for 18 years. They have a daughter together and he also helped to raise Christine's two other children from her first marriage. But a few years ago, Christine decided it was time to leave.
It's often so hard to know if it's time to go or if there's more work to be done. How long did it take for you to journey through the period of, do I stay or do I go?
I think that's a really good point because it's either partner, but I think it's even harder for a woman to leave a marriage because she is the nurturer and she's the one, especially with kids that I think we all put so much pressure on to keep it all together. And at least in my relationship, I was the more emotional one.
And so I, I understood the emotional loss that would happen for everyone. We had some situations about six years prior to the marriage ending. And, as somebody who had been through a prior divorce, and I did understand the impact, I wanted to make sure that I had done absolutely everything I could to try to keep this marriage together, to try to work things out, to make sure that if it did end, it, we would all end up on our feet.
And so, yeah, it's a long process, or at least it was for me.
you are also, you know,
Being a coach and the, and having the awareness that you have and all of the tools that you have, I imagine that made it. May be harder or just because of your self awareness and all the things that you like the tools that you know that you can use To actually like work on a relationship.
Did that have any impact on how long you stayed?
Yeah, absolutely. Because I do, first of all, I always believe that anything is possible and that with tools and strategies, people can change. I've seen it so many times in life with my clients and with family members, friends. And so I had that hope for a really long time and you know, had the support of friends and family too, to keep going and to keep trying and to offer my partner those opportunities as well.
Like, here are some things, like, let's try this book, let's try that book, let's try this therapist, let's, what if you got life coaching, you know, it's so amazing. And we really did try everything.
Yeah, and how receptive was he to? Working on it.
was like, he, he never really balked at anything like, no, I'm not doing that or I'm not going there. I think that I don't know. I mean, I can't speak for him, but I think some people don't have, they don't maybe grow up or don't have that capacity to, I don't know. Um, but it does make situations harder and, you know, he was willing to try and then also, you know, we were both oldest children and so we both were pretty stubborn. Also, and we saw life going two different directions, I think with our youngest, you know, getting ready to launch. And we both wanted very different things and I couldn't change for him. I didn't want those same things and he didn't want to support the ways that I wanted to go. And so I think in the end we just kind of reached a stalemate and it was done.
so the person who was on my podcast The last episode, Karsten, we were talking about how sometimes, you know, when you're wanting to make a move or wanting to do something different or, follow a new path in your life, you know, we were talking a lot about career, but then we were also talking about partnerships and oftentimes the two partners are just not on the same path you know, their growth journeys are coming at different paces.
Does that feel true to you?
Yeah. And I, I think it's sometimes that fear of change you know, what is going to happen when this one child that our world is kind of based around leaves and having different ideas about what that would look like. I've always loved my career and I took a lot of time off. to, you know, raise the kids and enjoyed every second of that. And as they got older, you know, I would go back to work. And I think once our youngest started driving, that changed a lot. And, I really wanted to go back to, you know, who I was, my purpose, and what am I going to do with this next chapter? I'm not done working. I still have so much to give. I love, love, love learning so much.
And I also wanted to do all the fun things. And so I think Bruce was. already kind of jumping ahead about 10 years to like, we're going to retire, go do all these fun things. I want to go do this. And this is what fun looks like to me. You know, maybe a little bit of a midlife crisis, like back to what fun was in his twenties.
Mm.
are you with me in this? And it's like, no, I'm not like I could do these things. Like we could meet in the middle, you know, and there was one life coach who said, you make a want list of what you want to do. And then you sit together and you see what you have in common. And those are the things you do in common.
And I think you both have to be willing to do that. And I think Bruce. saw my wanting to work as a kind of a threat to him and what all the fun things he wanted to do, which in reality, he's still working. And there's plenty of time for both. And again, it's that fear of change, the fear of the future that I think people can get caught up in, unfortunately.
Was there a big aha moment when you were like, oh, I need to go? Or was it sort of just this gradual, arrival at this place where you're like, okay, I'm good. I'm going to go now.
There were some things, some situations that occurred that it went from 90 percent to 100%. This is what I need to do. Absolutely. I will not look back. I have no regrets. Yeah. Absolutely.
What were your biggest fears about leaving your marriage? Yeah.
so many you know, I think it's that you've been together with somebody for so long and it's like, how am I going to do this on my own? And know, I've always been strong and resilient. I've started over so many different times in my life and I knew that. I could do the logistics.
I could figure that out. And also I think we always have that unrealistic fear of like, oh my gosh, I'm not going to have anywhere to sleep, anywhere to eat, like anything to eat or, you know, I'm going to be destitute. I think our brains kind of go to that place and. Yeah. I mean, there was a lot, there's always a lot of fear, I think.
What was your internal narrative or belief system about yourself and men and relationships in the early stages of going through your divorce?
I think as a woman who raised a family and was so proud of my family, part of my internal dialogue was I had failed and people who divorce fail basically I had messed up somewhere along the lines. And even though I knew logically, but emotionally I felt like a failure.
And so. You know, that was part of one thing I had to work through. In relation to men, I never thought I would be a man hater, but um, I had a hard time trusting men and their intentions, and I didn't feel comfortable with them. I think part of it was because I was afraid of who I was, and I didn't know who I was, and so I didn't want masculine power around me. And it took a while. I mean, I remember being in the grocery store and I felt like I was playing laser tag because I'd go down an aisle and if there was a man, I would turn around and go down a different aisle.
What were you afraid of in the grocery store seeing a man? Or was it just like resentment to all men? What was that about? Yeah. Yeah.
I didn't trust that men had my best interests at heart and I didn't feel that men were safe. I felt like men. were there to control, to take over, to judge, to, criticize, to do all the things that for whatever reason I was believing. And so therefore every man except for the ones in my family were bad.
Yeah.
And it was just safer to stay there.
Christina May have been having a lot of conversations lately about the difference between women and men, particularly today, post me too. And in particular, the complicated dynamic of women having had this huge wake up call and growth spurt in recent years. And how that growth is changing and affecting our relationships with, and this is a generalization, but men who haven't caught up yet.
Yeah. And I think that You know, in looking at things, you know, like talking to male family members and we talk about the patriarchy and the matriarchy, we have for so many years raised men and women in our society in a certain way. And so, as women are getting stronger and would like men as not. as a different kind of companion, as somebody who is more emotionally available. I think that in some ways we have to be a little bit open minded because, and not just put those expectations on them, they haven't learned, nor has there been a society that has made it easy for them to learn how to open up emotionally. And so me at my age thinking about dating, I can't expect men my age to be open minded.
as emotionally available as maybe 20 year old males. And so I have to look at ways that I can communicate effectively and hold a safe place for somebody to be more emotionally available and then see if they can or can't. And again, it's not always their fault because that's what society has done, but I feel like some people can be open to learning and some people aren't.
just not ready or not there.
Yeah, that's a really, those are really good points. And as you were talking, I was thinking about how, what we were saying before, we're like sometimes in a partnership, two people are just not on the same timeline in terms of their growth journey. And this is as like society as a whole, like in this country, women seem to be on like a different trajectory of their growth journey than men currently.
Yeah. And it's just taking a minute for like the men to catch up and it's not their fault.
I also just wanted to jump in here and say that just like any other ism. The current patriarchal establishment, isn't the fault of men today, but it is their responsibility to be a part in changing. Uh, sexist system. That was built a long time ago and that they're still benefiting from.
yeah. And it's funny and having conversations With men about having a divorce coach and going to a retreat with 35 divorced women about my age, moving forward, not looking back, not with anger, not resentment, none of that, but like, where are we going forward? And it's funny. in talking with some men who, you know, are divorced, recently divorced, like, well, where do you find that?
And so I think some people are open, but our society doesn't, you know, I don't even know what the ratio hasn't, I haven't looked, but I know that there are many more support coaches for women going through divorce than there are for men. And I think the ones who seek it out will be great. we can offer those opportunities professionally and as a society for men who are open to growing.
The, awareness around, sort of exhaving acceptance for where a man is, and then deciding kind of if you're, you know, Open to, getting into a relationship with that person where they are or not, is really interesting because I think it, you know, especially if you're in a moment where you're like, I hate all that.
I don't even want to see them in the grocery store. To then get to this space where you're like, I can have some compassion and some empathy for this. It's not necessarily their fault. and there are some. Men out there who see this and also are willing to do the work and want to do the work may not be where we're at, but
Yeah, and I think also, if I could jump in, to be careful to not be their coach and their therapist.
But to be open to them learning. With a coach or a therapist, they just, they bring their new gifts and learning to the relationship, but we can hold space, but it's not, I just don't believe that it's, it's our job as mothers, a hundred percent to try to encourage that with our sons, but as a partner, it's not our job to teach a man how to do those things.
we are not their mother, nor do we want to be.
no. Or their therapist or
Or their therapist.
Okay. Going back to the identity piece. If you've listened to the show before, you know, I talk a lot about identity and you'll hear me talk about it again towards the end of the episode. The idea is around getting to know who you are separate from all the stuff that you've accomplished and accumulated. And that includes a spouse or a partner. Because if your identity is attached to your partner or to the mere fact that you are in a marriage or a relationship. Then who do you become?
If that relationship goes away? So without having a clear idea of who you are. Is when you'll likely feel the most lost, afraid, and in pieces when the world around you changes. And this is a huge reason why people tend to stay in relationships that just aren't working. And this is not to say that you won't have to grieve the loss of that relationship.
If you do know who you are and you do decide to leave because of course you will. And that grieving will look different for everyone. But you will have a much stronger foundation to recenter yourself on. And I also want to say that people stay in relationships, whether they work or not, for a myriad of reasons. And there's no judgment here. But for those who are wondering if they could be happier elsewhere, keep listening.
Which parts of you did you identify as like Bruce's wife or partner, , and what did it take to detach those parts of you from your marriage?
It's a hard one. It is a hard question. You know, we're pretty connected with our friend group and our family group. And so I think that goes to one of the fears. What would that look like for me? Because, you know, Bruce is a doctor. Our friend group was very medical based.
And so I just assumed that, you know, hopefully some of the women would still be my friends. But that, that was going to change quite a bit. And so I had to start looking for um, nurturing those friendships, but also creating new types of friendships in. pursuing my interests. And again, at the time it was very female based.
So, art based groups or female coaches, you know, female business networking events, um, getting out and meeting people and figuring out who I was, what I liked. Getting out and doing hikes and skiing and just by myself too, like, what is it that I really enjoy? If I'm hiking, how long do I really want to hike?
And what feels good to me? And what kind of lunch do I want when I get done? Like, it's the little things as well as the big things.
Yeah. That's such a good point. And the way you just said that sounds like it was maybe like a super fun empowering moment to be like, wait, what do I want to eat for lunch?
Yeah, it was. And then especially with Claire leaving for college, you know, she's very healthy, but picky eater. And all of a sudden it was like, what do I want for dinner? I don't know.
So fun.
Yeah.
So given what you told us about how you were feeling about men in the beginning, I imagine that you probably felt like you might never be attracted to another man, or maybe even worse, maybe you thought no man would be attracted to you. You recently had a fun encounter with a man.
Um, your first real attraction since your divorce. Would you be willing to share a little bit about what happened and what changed for you to be able to get to that place?
Yes, absolutely. So, you're so not fair.
Oh, come on. It's going to be helpful.
Okay.
story.
That's a good start. So I think through that self through the growth and the divorce coach was very law and is very law of attraction. And so we spent a lot of time on what do I want, not what do I not want. In my friends, both men and women, what I want for myself, what do I want to attract in, you know, financially, spiritually, socially, recreationally, all that kind of stuff.
And then as I got more secure in that, it was like, I could actually consider meeting a male. And I actually started, it was business wise. I actually had some business like meetings with, um, a couple of men that were really nice and kind. And so I sat with that for like a month, like, Oh, that was a nice man who was supportive of my business.
In any way, somebody who was supportive of what I wanted to do, who seemed like a very nice man, good husband, good. Father, role model, et cetera. I'm like, okay, so they exist. And I think that was the first mind opening. These men do exist out there somewhere. And as I started to, you know, spend some more time with my girlfriends, I looked at their husbands differently.
And all of a sudden. They started appearing different to me, like, Oh my gosh, look what a good husband he is, like how kind he is, like how supportive he is. And that started opening my mind, but it's, it's like this door that opens inch by inch by inch. And the fun story was, you know, I was getting to the point where I'm like, okay, I'm kind of open to talking with a man and maybe a man I don't already know.
And I'm not a dating app person, probably because of my age,
but,
Side note, there are dating apps out there for every age at this point, but okay. Let's get back to the juicy stuff.
but anyway, I was in Tucson out of town and there was a rooftop bar that overlooked all of Tucson that a friend of mine said, you have to go have a drink there and watch the sunset. I only had an hour before this other event I was going to, and it was really hard for me to go to a bar by myself.
So, um, yeah, And it took, seriously, five hours of internal dialogue coaching, um, and even I had to boxer my coach. Like, this is really hard. How am I going to do this? And so getting up the courage to do that, that was the first step. Go ahead.
Yeah, sorry. And what was the fear about going to the bar by yourself? Do you think? Do you know?
Oh, it was like being back in middle school. Like, I'm going to walk into the bar and everyone's going to turn around and laugh at me.
Oh,
Like seriously, you know what I mean? Like, it's, it was that. It was that. I'm going to walk in and trip and fall over the place. That's what's going to happen if I walk into a bar by myself.
Right. And
So. No, so I walked in, I actually, you know, went in at three o'clock. I walked around to kind of see what the environment was like, super outdoor, like almost like a pool bar friendly kind of thing. I'm like, okay, I can do this. So, you know, five more hours of internal dialogue went back and there was one seat open, there were women to my left and they were all with each other and chatting, and there was a man to my right.
And a few other men, I thought he was with him and they, he was not. So I took a deep breath and I asked him a question and he turned around and we started talking. And I was like, oh my gosh, like I am talking to a man that I didn't previously know and having a conversation. And. It was great. And it was also, you know, college atmosphere.
So very light and friendly and his daughter ended up showing up. So I chatted with her, the three of us talked and then I had to leave. And he gave me his number and I actually wanted to talk to him more. Like I hadn't felt this in forever. And so,
You were attracted to him.
I was attracted to him and that felt really good.
And so he's like, you can come back after your event, we'll still be here watching the games. And so I ended up going back and having more of a conversation with him and telling him that after all these years, I was attracted to him and, you know, just being honest,
That, I mean, that takes so much courage. Even for somebody who's like been in the dating game for a while, that takes so much courage. Where did that come from?
I think it, It came from this place of wanting to be authentically me and I say dumb stuff sometimes and I sometimes say what's on my mind and it's either going to go over well or it's not. Let's just know that now. And so I'm like, Hey, like I think you're attractive and it's been a really long time and you know, there was definitely chemistry there.
I felt safe in saying that. He was. you know, we were having great conversation and laughing a lot. I felt safe in saying something silly. So yeah, it just made it easier, but it's having that feel of the dynamic.
Right. And it sounds like it was maybe a way for you to kind of practice, like dip a toe in or something. Like here's an opportunity. If it doesn't go well, you're in a different state. He lives in a, you know,
Absolutely. Yes, exactly. Yeah. And knowing that yeah, I'm not going to see him at the grocery store tomorrow.
Right. Right. Right. Right. Right.
And also safe enough because not a random, Bar in Las Vegas, like this is college campus. I met his daughter. I met his friends like there was some Vetting that went to get to that point of safety.
Yeah. Yeah. You sort of created the like, boundaries and parameters of how you wanted to kind of practice and dip a toe in.
Yeah
Like, you were very thoughtful about it.
Yeah, I'm a planner
Yeah. Clearly.
And it was fun, it was really fun
And how has that changed your, um, life? Or has it changed your view on men and dating or what you're interested in, how you're going to approach dating?
Again. I think every step and every person you meet either opens your mind like okay You These are possibilities or, and I think we, you know, you kind of look at everybody, you look at everybody that way. Like you meet a new female, it's like, Oh, could they be my friend or maybe not? And looking at men the same way, talking to men on the chairlift, like what I consider you a friend or not in the brief four minute conversation. And I think it's opened my mind to the fact that there are nice, have conversations with. And also, Coming home and seeing how wonderful my life is and continuing on my path for me. And yes, if there's an opportunity to go out with friends, And, you know, to go to a bar or a restaurant or go skiing and go to the lodge, like put myself in those situations where there are men as opposed to like art class with just women and just see what happens.
Like I'm not trying to make anything happen
Yeah.
because I love my life, but open to conversation and seeing what those next steps might be.
Yeah. I think that feels like the, key and I, I think we've talked about this recently. But I feel the same way, where like, life is exciting right now, and finding a partner, finding a guy, to just sort of enhance that would be awesome, but it's not needed.
Like, you feel complete without it, it's such an important and like, empowering place to be.
To like, kind of live.
yeah, it actually absolutely is. And even sitting at the bar that night, you know, talking to his daughter and then she left and talking to him. I was talking to him and I was like, if nothing happens right now, I am 100 percent complete.
Yeah.
And that feels really good.
That's so empowering.
Yeah. And it makes it more fun.
Yeah, it's like a, it's a little bit like a game, not a game like you're screwing with other people's feelings, but a game that like it's, it doesn't have to be so serious. It can be fun and you always have a choice. Yeah,
I'm eating all my fruits and vegetables. Like I have a complete meal in my life. And would it be fun to have chocolate mousse dessert once in a while? Absolutely. But it's like, it's an add on and it's fun and it's enjoyable. It's not necessary. It's not. The vegetable that if I don't have it, I'm not going to be okay.
In what ways do you feel scared about dating again?
think a lot, I think one way is realizing that, you know, and even in this situation, you know, we, we, you know, are maintaining some kind of a friendship, but being in a marriage where you know somebody so well. And you know how to plan, you know how to communicate, you know how, you know what patterns the other person has and they're very predictable.
And so meeting people and not knowing what their patterns are, how do they set up things, how do they plan, how do they communicate, that part is scary because I am a planter and I want things a certain way. And so if they don't communicate or if There's going to have to be a lot of compromise. If their plans are different than mine, how do we compromise and what does compromising look like?
Again, I knew that if Bruce and I needed to compromise, we would sit down and have a certain kind of conversation. Might go well, might not go well, but I knew how that would happen. And so with somebody new, there's a lot of fear. How do you initiate those conversations? How do you bring things up and will it be well received or not?
And if not, like there are just so many different variables and decisions that go into dating. Yes. It's super fun. It's also very complicated.
Yeah, it's really complicated. I think I fear those things too.
Yeah, I think we all do, you know, I, my younger daughter, she's 27. She's navigating the same things.
It's, yeah, it's so hard. It's so hard when you know what you have.
And then also like the idea of just like, oh yeah, having to figure that all out again, and which is what you just said, but having to figure it all out again and establish the like ground rules and the, yeah, what is this going to look like and yeah, it's so hard.
It's scary.
Yeah, yeah,
and exciting.
yeah, cause it also could be better. Hopefully it will be better actually.
It's better, or it's not going to happen.
Right. Exactly. That's exactly right. Um.
truly believe that there are people, men and women, who want the same thing. And it is a process to find each other. very much.
What advice might you have for women who are struggling with the idea of leaving a relationship right now and maybe with kids?
That's a big question. I think that if you're in a marriage and you have children, then make sure you have a lot of support and a variety of support, like not just your besties that will tell you what you want to hear. Um, legal support, financial support, emotional support from professionals that will give you objective feedback and can call you on your stuff like, yes, you're looking at these things.
Are you also looking at this? And you know, yes, you want this from your husband and you're not getting it, but what are you doing to contribute to that? So that you know by the time you're making your decision to stay or leave, you've given it everything that you've got, and you've looked down every possibility, look, you've looked down every possible avenue, because especially with kids, it is hard, and it is sad, and it's it's hard on everybody.
And you have to be that sure, because you have to be that strong for yourself, for your kids, emotionally and in all the other ways. And so when you're confident in your decision, when the bad things happen, you're solid and you're centered.
Yeah. Really important advice.
Here we are at the end where I ask my guests to re-introduce themselves without any titles at all. Why you asked? Well, similar to what we talked about earlier, we are not our successes or failures, titles, hobbies. Or our relationship statuses. We are why we choose those things, what we learn from them and how we consciously decide.
We'd like to show up next time. The more sure we are of that. The more sure we are in our decisions, our boundaries and our future. So, what did Christine say?
I'm Christine Kaplan. I am 60 years old and I am a woman with a lot of things I want to do in life. I want to do things professionally. I want to travel. I want to, you know, do things artistically. There are just so many different adventures. I want to do things with friends. I want to meet people.
And at the same time, I am Christine who has had 60 years of experience and life and hardship and glory and excitement. I mean, I think we are all just such complex beings and, um, Each of us as humans, we look like we're just this stick figure walking around, but we are so full of so many memories, experiences, and potential.
Yeah, and wisdom.
Yeah.
Yeah, I love that. Is there anything else you'd like to share?
Um, Just that I was really afraid to do this and I'm so glad I did.
Oh, oh,
nicely for people.
that's so nice. I'm so glad. I'm so glad that you did this. Okay. So you are, I said this before, but you are my coach and a wonderful one at that. And
We are a wonderful client.
You're also a dear friend. Tell us all the coaching that you do and where people can find you, all the details.
Okay. Yeah, that part of me. So Christine Kaplan, and you can find me at christinekaplancoaching. com. I'm an ADHD life coach for teenagers, college kids, young adults. And I have a special group for women who have ADHD. And I was a therapist for over 20 years. So I have, So many different tools in my toolbox, cognitive behavioral, positive psychology, mindfulness.
Um, I just took some courses on hypnosis that I absolutely love
I did not know this.
getting super great results from
Cool.
It's been really, really fun. And then also really digging into The female brain with ADHD and how little we know. So like diving into all the new research, I find the brain fascinating. And so I just love learning.
And that is super fun also.
Lucky me. I get to learn from you. Um, this was so great. Thank you so much. I know that this took a while for us to figure out. But I'm just so grateful that you decided to say yes and come on and talk to me, share your story.
This was such a treat for me. And as usual, I learned so much from Christine. If you love this episode, please share it with someone you also think might benefit. The more we grow, the more we can help you grow. And while you're at it, please make sure you've subscribed. So you never miss an episode.
All of Christine and my information will be in the show notes. If you want to get in touch with either one of us. Thank you to Dan Davin for the music David Harper for the artwork I am. This age is produced by jellyfish industries. I'm your host, Molly cider. Catch you all next time.