Feeling stuck in a job or career that does not fulfill you? Do you feel like your growth path is different from those around you? Today, my guest shares helpful insights into his career change from corporate to coaching, which took two attempts. We then delve into what it takes to make that leap and how you can find support if you're struggling. One thing is certain: you can't do it alone. If you're ready, listen to the episode and then click the links below!
Feeling stuck in a job or career that does not fulfill you? Do you feel like your growth path is different from those around you? Today, my guest shares helpful insights into his career change from corporate to coaching, which took two attempts. We then delve into what it takes to make that leap and how you can find support if you're struggling. One thing is certain: you can't do it alone. If you're ready, listen to the episode and then click the links below!
Molly's Links:
Karsten Alva-Jorgensen's Links:
�� Are you craving a way to contribute with more intention, purpose, and a life where you feel seen and valued? Are you feeling stuck in a job that gives you financial safety but not fulfillment? Or do you have a partner who isn't on the same growth journey as you and maybe doesn't understand or support your desires?
Then dear listeners, it's a good thing you're here. . ─ Welcome to, I Am This Age, the podcast proving you're never too old and it's never too late. So go do that thing you're always talking about.
I'm Molly Sider, a certified professional life coach, speaker, and storyteller.
My guest today first shares a little bit about his career change from corporate to coaching, which took two tries before he and I get into what it really takes to take that kind of a leap. So stick with us until the end to find out how 📍 to do it, and if you have what it takes,
Spoiler alert, you do.
Real quick. If you are someone contemplating a big life change and you need support, go ahead and click the link in the show notes to get in touch with me. It's what I do. If there's one thing I know for certain, you cannot do it alone, so reach out.
I'm here for you. Okay. Please enjoy the episode. 📍
📍 📍 All right. Well, I'm Karsten Alva. I am originally from Copenhagen Denmark. Although these days I really consider myself a citizen of the world. I, uh, had a thirty-year career in financial services. I'm also, uh, been a father of two adopted children and I'm myself also adopted, ─ and I'm currently working as an executive coach, a life coach, and everything to do with human behavior. ───━
I'm 50 years of age, fifty-eight years of age but feel much more like in my thirties on the inside. ──
Awesome.
─ Karten originally attempted leaving his corporate career back in 2009, but it didn't quite go as planned, and he ended up going back to that corporate job for about another 10 years.
Can you talk about what it felt like to leave and then go back to this corporate job that you didn't really want, you thought you'd be able to leave, and then you realize you weren't ready for it?
Yes. Uh, well, it didn't feel great. And probably I hadn't, I wasn't equipped, I hadn't thought it all through, I suppose. Uh, what happened is I adopted two children who have no neurodiversity. I. And, uh, it was a challenging journey for all of us ─ especially in those early days. And I came after a few years I adopted my children.
I think they moved in in 2003 and by 2006. I realized I needed to really grow as a person, and I started to do a lot of personal developments, a lot of personal growth seminars, and, ─ uh, a lot of introspection into what life was all about, what, who I was. And by 2009, I really needed to be home with my children on a more full-time basis.
So I took a. A career break from my corporate international management consulting job. ── And, um, I retrained as a hypnotherapist and I thought I could make that work, but I really. We're not ready for the challenge of marketing. I didn't have the know-how to market myself to sell my services, ─ and I also had my children in private school and had a family to support, and ━─ I basically ran outta money and then decided I needed to go back to do what I had done previously.
That was my preference, but that's what my situation required.
── Well, this is a very honest and relatable reason to either stay in a secure job or return to one that you don't necessarily enjoy.
It's also quite a humbling scenario, and I really wanted to focus on what that moment felt like for Karsten.──
But what did that do to your ego?
It was more of a practical challenge. Uh, it turned out that taking a year out of work was highly suspicious to employers ─ and I'd been warned of that, but I, I really, uh. ─── I really had underestimated that and I've heard many other people's stories. So, to me it was very simple.
I took time out to parent, my two adopted children who needed me and I needed that career break. And I studied and developed myself and parented, uh, for, I think it was eight, nine months. It may not have been a full year. I thought that was a sensible thing to do after having worked for probably over 20 years at that point.
But prospective employers, found it very suspicious that there was something wrong that maybe had been to prison even on some sort of a drunk driving charge or, you know, I was asked all sorts of questions. ─ Uh, so. Uh, while I, I thought it was a very sensible thing to do. It met with a lot of skepticism when I wanted to reenter the workplace.
So fortunately I was able to use my network and get back into consulting and to rebuild, uh, my professional career. But that took time and it, it really was only because of my. Personal relationships that I was able to re-enter work,
that sounds really stressful. ── You're shaking your head yes. How did you soothe your nervous system at that time?
─ It was challenging and I think I did feel.
That I was somewhat trapped in a situation, but I followed my values. My highest value was to keep my children to the extent possible in their private schools, to keep providing for the family and really to do what was required in that moment. I did have to swallow some camels, you know, I had to reenter at a.
At a lower point in the sort of career ladders than I had left, and clearly things hadn't really worked out in the way that I had wanted to. Having said that, I uh, ended up with some very interesting opportunities down the line, and I certainly, um, feel that I did some important work in those 10 years.
So it ─ i, I, I'm sort of reminded it's a bit of a luxury problem these days. I travel the world and I know many people don't have the opportunities to do any work, let alone any sort of meaningful work that takes care of their family. uh, it was my preference, but I'm still grateful for the people who helped me in that time, the opportunities that I was given, and I grew a lot in the next 10 years.
I think people often worry that they're wasting time or they've already wasted time, but the reality is that they're exactly where they need to be and they arrive, when they're ready to arrive, and there's so much value in the time that it takes, and it's really important to recognize what that value is.
How did, being back at work for the, those 10 years and all the things you just talked about, how did that prepare you for when you finally did decide to leave for good?
I. ────
Well, I think I grew in maturity. Um, I certainly built a lot more skills, so I would say human behavior and psychology, everything related is my. My true passion in life. ─ And so the way I made it work is I treated that as a hobby. So I, I did the parenting, I did my work, I did my other, social activities, but I also continued to develop myself.
And I would say I also didn't give up on the dream. But I more deferred it and I now understood better the challenge that was ahead ─ and, uh, and prepared myself better. ─ And eventually, as you alluded to, in I think just January of 2020, uh, I had completed a, a large seven year program for Global International Bank.
I was very taxing and I realized I didn't have another one of those in me. It was my time to, to make a transition, ─── and by then my children were young adults and also independent, and I felt, uh, it was the right time. ─
─ First of all, the dream never left me the, the, if anything, it kept growing inside of me. The need to work in a different way to be ─ free in the world. And I guess for me personal freedom. Became more and more important, being able to pursue the things that were truly in my heart to do, to express more of my talents and to work with different parts of me than I'd used in my corporate career. Particularly related to ━── supporting and inspiring people through coaching and professional training and therapy, and, and is to this day, something really purposeful for me that I think probably has been there since an early age.
But I had, I had suppressed it or I had, uh, set it aside to pursue other things in life. And I knew if I wanted to make this change, which I did I couldn't keep putting it off. And I'm a really big supporter of making changes enough. ─ Mid to late fifties. I think ─ it, it's, uh, to, to kind of step into that next phase of life.
Sometimes I call it the afternoon of life where, uh, we still have a lot to give and we might still live. I. 20, 30, 40 productive years. Many people live well into their nineties, uh, and are still healthy and well these days, and so we have a significant proportion of life after our fifties, ─ but I think we have the most energy and wherewithal to make it change.
Career transition, uh, in that period from like fifty-five to 60. I think for many people it's gonna be the right time to, um, to set up that next phase of life.
─ Raise your hand if in your younger years you chose the Path career. Otherwise, based on what was expected of you and not necessarily what you really wanted to do. If you are raising your hand right now, I promise you are in good company specifically with Karsten.
So I grew up in Denmark and, uh, at the age of 19, I had the opportunity, wonderful opportunity to pursue a liberal arts degree in the United States. I. And when I declared to my family I was an only child. As I mentioned, I'm also adopted when I declared to my parents that I really would love to stay at this American university I was asked a lot of questions.
They were worried about whether a US college degree University would be, how that would. Work if I wanted to, uh, move back to Denmark and I felt I had to really justify myself and go a very traditional route that I suppose looked good for my parents, looked good for my friends, and so, uh, I went into economics and into a career as a. ── International management consulting consultant. I didn't feel that it would've been as readily acceptable for me to say I wanted to study psychology or be a therapist or be in a helping professions. ─ Now, a lot of that I didn't test, so quite possibly my parents would've been very open-minded to that.
But it was my judgment of what their judgment would've been that that stopped me. ─
I think that's so common. Thanks for sharing that, because I think that's so common and I think, to see an example of somebody who had this, deep interest a long time ago, but never pursued it, but now is pursuing it in your fifties, you know, that's what this, that's what this whole podcast is about.
Really. You know, the tagline is just go do that thing you've always been talking about.
Absolutely. And, and, uh, now of course the irony is, uh, that's what I get to help a lot of people do. ──
Karsten and I both get to help people do exactly this. So if you're struggling, you now have two people you can reach out to. Click either of our links in the show notes. Okay, let's keep going.
And what I'm noticing is young people, um. Today's young people are much less willing to compromise on what it is that's in their heart to pursue and their passion. ─ And uh, I will encourage it. You know, so I work funny enough both with people in their twenties leaving university and finding their way into adult life, but also very much people in their fifties who are. ─
Now finally setting themselves free. And I'm reminded when I was kind of going on my journey. I also love photography and literally I would be going to photography courses just to develop my skills and there would be psychologists retraining to be photographers, ── and I would go to maybe psychology and coaching and therapy courses. ─
There would be bankers and accountants retraining to be therapists. So part of it I think, is everything happens for us. Everything is on the way, and I think, uh, we should not negate the experience. We get all of the. ─ Wonderful experience and opportunities I had. Working at executive levels, year levels in large corporates and working around the world, is still very useful experience to me in my new career today.
And we bring all of our experience with us into whatever is next.
Yeah, absolutely.
When Karsten did leave his corporate career for good, he was delayed once more because of Covid. I.
During that time, especially in the beginning, did you ever have any worries that you would actually have to go back to a corporate job, like especially in the beginning of Covid.
Sometimes we have this analogy of the, the dinghy or the small boat, and you pull the plug, right? You gotta sink a swim. ─ And, uh, ─ for me, I did have, uh, opportunities or invitations to return to the corporate world.
I was invited to be the CEO of a very fast-growing niche consultancy, for example. And it would've been an easier option, but it wouldn't have given me all the things that I was looking for. So I would say I was pretty unwavering. I was clear, pretty clear if I didn't do it now, I didn't make the transition while I had the energy and the desire to do it and the time as well to, to.
Learn and grow and develop new skills. I probably would end up never doing it and then living a life of regret or having a, a regret over that. And I just wasn't willing to do that.
And I certainly wanted my children to be. As well set up and prepared for their adult life as possible. and to do everything close, everything in a good manner before going on my adventures. I feel proud that I did that. It felt right to me, congruent with my values.
Now probably, you know, as I've worked with clients, a more gradual transition I think works best for many people, might have worked even better for me
So eventually you ended up spending ─ six months in Brazil, did you know anybody there
Not many. I, uh, I did have a relationship with a Brazilian in the past and I know some of the family, but, um, through that I'd ended up many years ago buying a, a property here in Brazil, and that's really the convenience of already having a place. It ──── was what drove me to come to Brazil initially, ─ and uh, now I would say I've been on this search, where do I belong in the world and where can I show up and make the biggest contribution?
And when you say that, like, where do I belong? This search for where I belong in the world, I feel like. It could go either direction, like it could go, that could feel like a really positive, huge opportunity, like a fun exploration. And it can also feel really like you might also feel really like lonely and, lost.
Which were you or were you bouncing
I think it was for me more of a, like a positive exploration I am very international by background. You know, my, my. My birth parents are very international. My experience, I've lived and worked around the world, so at some level I feel I belong everywhere I don't feel I need special permission to belong somewhere.
You know, I've always engaged with the people around me, wherever in the world I was. I do feel that in the end of the day, we belong to ourselves. We belong to our, our mission, our purpose, ─ and I, I feel comfortable everywhere and yet I. ─────
There might be that sweet spot of a, of a place where I can contribute the most. ── I feel these days to go with the flow and to really listen to what's working and the feedback that. ─── It's coming to me based on where ─ I, I think there's a natural congruency, and that's what I'm, I'm more listening for what's right than trying to ─ impose what's right on the world.
That's awesome. That's also really hard. How do you, how do you trust yourself? Like how do you trust that inner voice or that knowing? ──
It's a choice. First of all, I think the challenge is to lessen the distractions and to practice some form of stillness. I. You know, to, for me, it's to quiet myself so that I can actually hear, from an inner place I can actually hear what is emerging and what is being given birth to within me. ──
I really believe that there's that opportunity to live more from the inside out, free of external expectations and ─ what other people might. ─ Want for us or demand of us, and then the next question is, you know, once we hear the call, if you will, are we willing to put faith and trust into that? ── And I think it's self-reinforcing. The more I trust my intuition. Trust what I'm hearing and, and follow that ── the more clear it seems to become and the more congruent things are and it it things are flowing rather than me trying to force things.
What do you think a person. Needs to like have within themselves or be like in their personality to make a change like you've done.
I, ─ you know, I can't prove it, but my experience is that we all have unique. ━─ And a unique purpose, ─ and maybe it's more than one purpose throughout our lives. Clearly, one of my purposes was to ─── give the gift of adoption. You know, and family, if we can consider it a gift to children who, who needed a family, because that's what was given to me.
So that was clearly a purpose and, and I dedicated at least 20 years of my life to that, to a very large extent. ─ But then, ─ uh, I think we can have more than one purpose. And I think another purpose for me is to live ─ what I call. My inspired life and to inspire, encourage, and support other people on their journey to live their inspired life at whatever age they decide is, is right to pursue that. ──
And I think equally, everyone I come across, I think keep inside ━ lies. ─── At least dormant a certain desire or a certain set of values, certain things we wanna fulfill on in life. And we gradually, I think ─ that calling can grow throughout our lives and ── the voice can grow stronger. That was certainly what I, I experienced and.
At some point, many of us begin to listen to that and to explore it and to investigate it and to promote it in our lives. ────── Now many things can get in the way. I come from this financial services background where, quite honestly, I feel sometimes people are trapped by their success. They have high income, a lot of stability, maybe a lot of status from their positions.
A lot of trappings that sort of keep us stuck in, well stuck, that attracts us to not making changes, I suppose, that disincentivize change. And yet there's this other part of us that needs expression often and, uh, there's a tension ─ and as. ─ In the time we resist that change, I think that resistance can cause discomfort and almost a degree of suffering.
But when we can begin to give that healthy expression, ─ I. In a sensible, grown-up, adult responsible way I think we, we feel better and, uh, often, you know, in financial services we might be trapped by high incomes and pensions and golden handcuffs and all of that. But of course, also another challenge can be if our partner, ─ uh, if we have a life partner, if our ─ wife or husband or significant others are not, ─ on the same journey, maybe they're not feeling the same call. And then that is another source of tension and friction. How do we ─ navigate it in a way that we hopefully do it for the highest good of all concerned and take care of everybody in the process? And I see that that is a challenge.
You know, often couples. May not grow at the same rate or in the same way, or in the same direction. And now as we live maybe 80, 90 years, a hundred years, ─ it's a lot to ask for one relationship to bear us through all of life. It's a deal when it does, but often it, it can be a challenge. And unless we have the communication skills and. ─
The clarity and the, uh, ability to negotiate ── the changes we wanna make and the acceptance from the other partner that this is a necessary self-expression that can be another difficult thing to navigate.
that's really hard one. Especially because I feel like there, it's so ─ unusual for two people to be like at the same place in terms of their growth journey.
Yes, yes ─── it is. And not everyone. Um, I think we are all in a gross journey. I certainly think, you know, a large purpose of life is for us to grow in our loving and growing our wisdom. I. ── Growing our spirit and ourselves and our connection, to our broader purpose. But there are, you know, I often see, uh, uh, husband and wife may not be at the same place in the same rate.
And when one person starts to grow and change and, expand their horizons and their interests. If the other person isn't open to that or feels even threatened, I often see that it can be quite threatening for the other party, uh, who may not feel ready to embrace change and, uh, may not desire that.
If that relationship is to really serve both people and thrive, then it has that challenge has to be negotiated in some way. ────
Yeah. You know, obviously making all these big changes and moving and figuring out where to move and learning how to trust yourself and all that stuff is, is hard. And it presents, uh, you know, a whole new set of challenges.
I've certainly felt them and have been going through them as I've been going through my own. Transition for the past few years. . I was saying this to my friend the other day as I was explaining to her a new project that I'm starting, that I'm very excited about, and then I sort of joked with her and said, ──━ why can't I just be like a person who just is content with a regular job ─ and a regular home and just like living life that way?
Why do I do this for myself? I make. Life is so much more difficult. Do you ever feel that way? ──
Yes, I'm reminded, um, one, one of my mentors who's now passed away. Jim Roan always said, don't wish it was ━ easier. Wish you were better, smarter, wiser, ━━━━ stronger.
Yes.
And, um, ─── I think, um. ━────── We have to look at what makes life fulfilling and rewarding. There is no doubt in life we face challenge and often tragedy and setbacks and difficulties, and almost all of us find that in, in some form or another.
But I think what makes life truly worthwhile is when we, when we're on purpose, when we are living congruent with the things that we most value in the world and we see. ── We are contributing to some positive effect in those causes and in those people that we love that we hold most dear. ─ And I think that's where we find fulfillment and the reason to keep going in the face of challenge. ─
we, this life was not created to be easy and comfortable. As far as I can tell, but ─ there is huge reward when we give ourselves permission to, in some small way, at least pursue that, which is in our heart.
Yeah. I love that. I agree.
Often what stops us is that we don't have the clarity. You know, very often I come across people in my work as a life coach executive coach, that people are very clear on what they don't want. ─── And I've seen that at times in my life. We know what we don't want, but we may not have ─ gotten the clarity about what we do want.
And when we start to develop that, it can be scary because it, we then see, okay, if I want to go in this direction, it's gonna require some. ────━ and it likely any growth requires taking some kind of uncomfortable action ─ because we are facing into something that's new and unknown and we probably have to develop ourselves in new ways and that that growth is likely never gonna feel that comfortable as we go through it.
Yeah, and especially like you said, if you're not yet completely sure what it is exactly that you want, you know you want some sort of change, but it goes back to that trust. How do you trust that you're moving in the right direction, but also trusting that, you know, it may not be the thing that you try next, but that that thing is getting you closer to the thing that you ultimately want and will be happy with.
And often we need to perhaps know a direction, but we don't need to know all the signposts and all the aspects of the journey. But if we know a general direction, another spiritual teacher of mine said, when in doubt, check it out. , you know, before sending my things to Brazil and so on, you know, I, I went and spent some time here and checked it out.
Could this work for me? Right? Uh, so it's not just blind leaps of faith. We can, we can do experiments ─ and uh, and we can test what works and, and see what the feedback is, uh, that life gives us. ─
Yes. and also. , remembering your purpose and why you wanna do the thing and what fills you up and how you wanna contribute. Because I think so many people too end up quitting early because it's scary and it's hard and it's extremely uncomfortable.
It's been extremely valuable for me to surround myself or to have proximity with people who are also, I. ─ Going on a similar journey to seek out and to find a, a network of people who are supportive. Now, I was very fortunate when I announced I want to be an executive coach, a life coach, help people.
I. Lived their inspired life. ─ Uh, I had broad agreement, you know, from friends, from family, from my children, you know, nobody said, no, that's a crazy idea and there's no way you can do that. But of course at times, maybe, uh, I would've. People have different feedback and maybe early in my life I could have had different feedback, particularly when people are very dependent on us continuing to be who they've always known us to be. ─
And it's their fear and insecurity about your changes by surface. So I think in those times it's uh, it is really helpful and wise to find a community of like minded people and maybe a few people who. Been further along that journey and, uh, people we can be in dialogue with. It can be professional coaches or professional or, or, or, or just very trusted ─ friends and advisors who ─ don't have an agenda for us, but who hold.
For our truth to emerge and support us in, in our exploration. And who encourages us? One of my biggest supporters, my ninety-four year old uncle, he is been, uh, a family friend. I call him my uncle, and he's really like a father to me. And, and no one has been ─ more encouraging and supportive at every stage in my life than, uh, my uncle.
And having someone like that who. ── Who listens carefully who believes and trusts in you and who supports you. Maybe ask clarifying questions along the way, but who is ultimately ─ there for you to succeed on your terms is invaluable. And if we don't have enough of those voices in our life, I think it's wise to go seek them out.
Yes, I agree.
─ Here we are at the end where I asked Karsten to reintroduce himself without using the descriptions like dad, entrepreneur, or coach. Why? Well, because I like to say we are not our successes, our failures, thank goodness, hobbies. Or titles we are. Why we want those things, why we make the decisions we make, what we learn from those experiences and how we consciously choose to show up next time.
If you make decisions and changes from that place, honoring that person, you can't make a mistake. So here's what Karsten said.─
Kostan, Alvar, and I am loving, generous. Kind, compassionate, ─ and I create a safe space ─ for people to express themselves and I listen well. ─
Is there anything else that you would like to share
this is the first time maybe since I was like six years old, that I'm not institutionalized. ───
I feel I've been going through just education, higher education corporates that I've been living inside of institutions. For the vast majority of my life, and now having found a new freedom to create my own structures to live in my own way has been a big challenge because I, I don't think I was aware of how much of my daily routines my thinking. ━────━ My life was really formed by all of these institutions that I've been going through ── and all of a sudden starting the day with a sort of clean slate and being able to create any experience in any way that I choose was a, a bigger challenge than I had imagined. ────── So that's the first one. And the second one along with that was, uh, a sort of self-concept.
This identity that I had as a corporate senior executive, as a managing director at a global bank or global consulting partner, ─ you know, it came with so much identity and status and clarity in a way I could communicate to people in those spheres immediately who I was and where I fit in, ─ and, uh, letting all of that go and allowing a new identity. ──
To form maybe from a different place within myself has been much more of a process. It's not something that happens from one day to the other. And, uh, it's been a process of unfolding, revealing, listening, growth ─ that I really cherished, but it's also been more challenging and prolonged process than I ever imagined it. ─
Yeah, there's a mourning there's a griefing. Period that you have to go through. I am still going through it too. Leaving
And I letting go. I letting go as well. Letting go of, physical belongings and emotional baggage ─ and, uh, sometimes relationships that no longer fit or serve, uh, and that's definitely, uh, been necessary. I think that letting go is necessary so that we can, uh, have room for the new.
But there is, uh, there's a grieving, there is an, uh, it's an emotional process and it's a gradual process. And it's one that ── I, I thought I could do like changing job. Like I could, ━ in December and start, 1st of January and be the new me. ───━━─ I didn't realize very likely I actually needed a, a, a, a long period of a break to breeze.
To simply be in the world and to listen to what was going to come out of from within inside of myself, and to give that room and space ─ and to allow things to happen in a, in a subtler. ─ Probably more profound and deep way, but a subtler and more gradual emerging than, uh, other transitions I've made in my life.
Yeah. It's like a, a shedding of your old self and belief systems or what you've been taught to, taught to believe, and
Yeah.
that's hard.
And, and growing. Growing the new as well. Right? It's just the letting go and the letting in.
Yeah. ─ Has it all been worth it? ───
A hundred percent. I couldn't imagine. ─── If anything, it was overdue and had I had the knowledge to seek out a coach or someone who had been working this past in 2000 and I. Nine. I, I think I could have done it successfully back then, but I, I, I didn't, um, I didn't know I needed that or could have benefited from that, and I didn't even know, you know, so I wasn't looking.
I may not have particularly known where to look ─ and, uh, maybe I just wasn't ready to make this whole change. But I certainly feel ready now and. It's not that it's the easy path, but it's certainly, it's, it's the only path that I could imagine being on today.
Yeah, same. ─── Where can people find you? ───
So I'm Carsten Alva on LinkedIn and Facebook and uh, uh, my website is in power.com. ─
Awesome. I'll put that all in the show notes. Thank you so much for doing this and for opening up and sharing your whole journey with us. ─ It was awesome having you here.
Thank you Molly, and uh, I love that you are taking a stand for this world to ─ allow people. To step into their authentic selves at, at an important phase of life and for giving voice and encouragement through the stories that you're sharing on this podcast. Uh, I'm grateful to have been here with you today, and I will follow everything that comes with lots of curiosity, interest, and, uh, love the adventure of it all,
Awesome. Thank you for saying that. That's so nice
── I love Karsten. I'm so glad that we're friends now. He has such great advice for making changes later in life. It's awesome. As always, if you love this episode, please share it with someone you think may also benefit from it
sharing this podcast helps us grow, and the more we grow, the more we can help you grow. ─ Thank you to Dan Daven for the music. David Harper for the artwork. I am This age is produced by Jellyfish Industries. I'm Molly Sider, your host. Until next time, stay curious. ──────────